Pembroke finished their Indoor Club Champions Challenge I in Vrsac, Serbia in sixth place of seven teams, managing a win and a draw in the third tier of European Indoor hockey over the weekend.
Interpro heroics mask structural deficiencies
7 years ago
28 comments:
anyone know if that means they were relegated? Would be a pity if the irish team had to go to the D division next year!
Thats pretty embarrasing lads!! I dont believe Avoca or Railway ever did this bad and even worse since now the Comp is split into two sections so less games are played so no excuse!! i do think TRR will do alot better, very difficult to do worse.
And in answer to the above comment, maybe cause i know alot of countries are trying to get into the comp so seems fair there given a chance. And not sure if there is a "D" division
Yes, Pembroke have now turned in the joint worst performance of any Irish Club side in any European competition and have relegated Ireland to the D-division!! for next year.
Avoca accomplished this feat back in 2004 but managed to get themselves back up again the following year!!!
On Day 1 they were beaten by the Hungarians (Rosco Budapest) and Slovakians (KPH Raca).
On Day 2 they drew with the Belgians (Royal Oree) and were beaten by the Swedish (Partille)
On the final day they eventually managed to beat the team from Serbia (Elektrovojvodina)... are they not on the verge of another Balkan war??? and lost again to the Belorussians (Stroitel Brest)
Good Luck Three Rock Rovers next year, you'll need to complete some extensive research as you'll be up against Bulgarians, Norwegians, Greeks, Lithuanians, Maltese and the Turks!!!... Oh not forgetting those Serbians..
Queso
This is what happens when you send a 2nd team to a european competition...Neville cup all over again.
no they didnt get relegated
absolute disgrace from pembroke sending a b team over...again showed their arrogance about big tournaments, hardly any of the players travelled.
arrogance?!ha...you havent a clue...pembroke were without gordon elliott and alan sothern due to the senior interpros...tim lewis and ronan gormley were just back from NZ and are deserving of a break, dave harte travelled when he really shouldnt have and craig fulton was unable to travel....the problem was, was that pembroke were up against teams that have spent the last two months playin indoor hockey as their outdoor seasons are on breaks, so wise up my misinformed friend and stop leavin rubbish comments that spark off stupid conversations
El Gringo
It's a slow day in work... so here's Ireland's record in European Indoor Cup Competitions.
One thing is clear though, as the number of countries entering the indoor competition has increased, Ireland has slide down the pecking order!!
In addition promotion and relegation at the bottom division does depend heavily on how many countries are entered and the fact that the C-division only had 7 teams this year would probably indicate that only the last placed team will be relegated to the D-division... so Pembroke may not have been relegated yet!!!
Queso
1991: B-division 2nd (Avoca)
1992: A-division 7th (Holywood)
1993: B-division 2nd (Avoca)
1994: B-division 4th (Avoca)
1995: B-division 5th (Avoca)
1996: B-division 8th (Avoca)
1997: C-division n/a (n/a)
1998: C-division 8th (Avoca)
1999: C-division 5th (Avoca)
2000: C-division 7th (Avoca)
2001: C-division 4th (Railway Un)
2002: C-division 5th (Avoca)
2003: C-division 6th (Avoca)
2004: C-division 5th (Avoca)
2005: D-division 3rd (Avoca)
2006: C-division 3rd (Railway Un)
2007: C-division 5th (Railway Un)
2008: C-division 6th (Pembroke W)
what other team were pembroke supposed to send given that half their players were either representing ireland in new zealand, their province at the inter pros or in the case of their coach, unable to get a visa. they weren't relegated as only 7th and 8th position in european competitions get relegated. and as for there being a lot of countries who want to get in to the competition that seems unlikely as they were only able to fill seven of the eight available places! good to see everybody putting forward reasoned argument yet again and jumping on the arrogant pembroke band wagon.
Queso
Great research but one part is oncorrect, in 2004 Avoca played in Loughborough and came 5th out of 8, Swansea Bay, HK Leklipovi and Pezevezys all came below us, the following year we played in Finland in the "C' division.
Avoca have never gotten relegated to the "D" division
Jon
Cry me a river El Gringo, every irish side that has gone to the Indoors has had to overcome that, the difference is that the other irish sides actually probably did a bit of training to at least not be as far behind in court hours!! if a club is not gonna send there best team then dont put yourself forward, guarantee if it was an outdoor comp they would have approached it very differently, Luckily i feel with Liam Canning at TRR,one of the top 5 ever to play the game, he will not allow TRR be so brazen in there approach,after all you are representing IRELAND!!! Also you are allowed two guests can anyone tell me who Pembroke brought? Avoca regularly brought Stephen Stewart before he joined them, Liam Canning a few years previous, Paddy Conlon played in the Leinster Comp for Avoca, as did Cliff Bailey, Trevor Dagg Colm Brady all not playing for Avoca that year, while i know that Railway brought Parsons and Shabazz!!
Jon,
I accept that Avoca did finish 5th in Loughborough 2004, but Challenge II is the D-division.
It was only introduced for the first time in 2005 due to the growing number of countries entering the indoor competition.
I think you were just unlucky in that for the first year it looks like they must have just drawn from a hat!!!
No Queso, you are definately wrong there on this one. Dont know where you got your information from but its a classic case of misinformation on this site. In 2005 Avoca did indeed play in the D division.
If Challenge 2 is the D Division, then why do the winners get promoted to the Champions Trophy or the old B Divison and not Challenge 1 the old C Division?
The old C division was split because of the amount of teams and the cost for Eastern Euro teams travelling to countries that were to expensive.
The wineerr of both C divisions get promoted to B. Therefore there is no D
Check the EHF website.
Some shocking posts getting thrown up here. Enough of your 'stat attack' motsy. Id prefer a good auld traditional YM debate as opposed to this rubbish!
xGreat!!
Now I even have to instruct people on how to read an internet site!!
Challenge II is D-division folks. In the first few years promotion and relegation was a little topsy-turvey, but this has settled down now.
As requested above, I did check the EHF website... pity the anonymous poster didn't.
Let's look at the 2007 European indoor competition: http://www.eurohockey.org/archive/indoor_clubchamp/men/2007_iccc_m_lille_brussel_budapest_subotica.pdf
It's all contained in one easy to read pdf document (although obviously not at the "Ann and Barry" or "Peter and Jane" level preferred by some)
Anyway read through the results pdf and it will become patently clear that in 2007 A-division (Champions Cup) was in Lille with the club from Poland winning and Netherlands and France relegated to B-division (Champions Trophy).
The B-division (Champions Trophy) was in Brussels with the clubs from Switzerland and England promoted to A-division (Champions Cup) and Belgium and Belarus relegated to C-divison (Challenge I).
The C-division (Challenge I) was in Budapest with the clubs from Russia and Croatia promoted to B-divison (Champions Trophy) and Slovakia and Wales relegated to D-division (Challenge II)
The D-division (Challenge II) was in Subotica with the clubs from Serbia and Finland promoted to C-divison (Challenge I)
If you get relegated from Challenge I to Challenge II and promoted from Challenge II to Challenge I then this is pretty concrete proof that they are not both C-division!!
Take your own advise and this time properly check the EHF website.
Here's the link for you: http://www.eurohockey.org
Queso
First off pembroke were'nt being arrogant in sending over a mixed team as it seems to me that they went over on piss and to take the complete piss out of a game that has been invented for fat people that have no skill! I also belive that one of the players threw and overhead!! So im sure if they wanted to do well in this sport im sure they could have.
i think that is pretty stupid taking the piss considering they are representing ireland in the competition, basically giving two fingers to the whole thing. im sure rovers wont be like that next season,well in all having some fun, but whats the point in competing if you have no interest in winning. its the main reason why all of us play. work hard play hard, simple as that.
Queso, although I am envious of the free time you seem to have to look into this I still cant agree with your overly long posts!!
You took 2007 as an example - the structure of the divisions had changed by this time. In the year in question (2005) challengeI and challengeII were indeed two "C" division pools. If you look at the website only the top team in each pool were promoted and both were admitted to the trophy for the next year => 2 "C" division pools.
Relax Mr queso, its ok to be wrong sometimes!
Now, back to ym talk.....
Yes it probably was a little topsy-turvy in the first year... so I can accept that Avoca weren't relegated in 2005... apologies to all avocans, your indoor record is impeccable :-)
It's true what they say YM are the future of hockey after an emphatic U21 victory recently... when those kids grow up... impossible is nothing!!!!
Queso
As a PWHC firsts player i can say that a comment such as the last one certainly didnt come from within our squad, the lads went out to have a bit of fun yes, but also to take the tournament seriously as they were still representing both their club and country...It was neither seen as a piss up or a holiday...comments like the last one shouldnt be allowed to be put up on this site
Who were the players that went out to serbia???
Yes Queso I agree Avoca's record is impeccible..well was not were less than average which i for one thing is great for the tournament and if what Stephen Findlater posted recently about the Nordie teams being keen to get involved again even better, i for one thing that indoor is where the true skill lies, not trick ponies dinking the ball over sticks 85% of the time beating there oppposition by fluke! BUt back to the initial point, Pembroke should have taken it serious they didnt, i'm sure TRR will so all is good
Jonathan
Maybe they should have sent Monkstown to represent ireland. I believe they embarrassed pembroke 4-2 in the indoor this year. They would at least put up a fight.
i think its fair to say that pembroke definitely have best indoor team when all are available and they proved this last year by winning. However, i think if players were unavailable wud it not have been more sensible to strengthen their team with proven indoor specialists like filip jaros who had an outstanding tournament this year and lucas piccoli who was brilliant last year. In my opinion that would have been the sensible option rather than weaker players as a replacement.
actually the ruling for that would probably be that the players would have had to be playing for pembroke when they won, would they not?
Well folks, it's official; The EHF have just released the Final Rankings from the various Indoor Club Championships....
....our blushes have been spared Pembroke Wanderers and Ireland's representatives have not been relegated to Challenge II (D-division) for next year.
Pembroke finished 6th in a 7 team competition and the Serbian representatives (7th) were relegated along with the Finish representatives who withdrew before the competition began.
That means Three Rock Rovers will be representing Ireland next year in Challenge I (C-division) and opposition will come from France, Croatia, Hungary, Belgium, Slovakia, Slovenia and Wales.
The only decision the make now is where it will take place??... anyone for Tallaght!!!
Queso
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