Ray's response:
This is a excellent question: If you don’t mind, I will be a little bit like a politician and not answer the question the way it was asked. I will deal with it on the basis of any player flicking (throwing an overhead) the ball; not “pressing a defender”
The main element to consider of any ball off the ground in Hockey, is danger. To me, there are three elements of a “flicked Ball (throwing an overhead)”
- first: the way up,
- second: traveling in the air
- third: the dropping area
In all 3 areas there must not be danger. So let's look at each one:
1) The way up:
How close is the opposition? I would suggest a minimum of five metres away in the line of the ball as it goes up. The five metres are based on the technique of the player putting the ball into the air. The same five metre rule of thumb is used by the rules in a shot at goal from a penalty corner.
What I mean by technique is: some players throw the ball straight into the air. Some players try to get a lot of distance and it takes a long time to get into the air to a height where is not dangerous.
2) Traveling in the air
This one is a little bit easier to explain. When the ball is traveling in the air, it must be at a safe height so that players can’t be competing for the ball.
3) The dropping area
Now we are in the area of most frustration for players. I have to hold my hand up here on behalf of the Umpires and say the frustration is caused by inconsistency of Umpires.
Let me first say NOBODY has the automatic right to the dropping ball.
The umpire needs to be alert and see early where the ball is going to drop. By doing this, the umpire will see which player was in that area first and be able to make an early decision as who has created the danger. The free should go against the player who arrived second.
I can hear you say, BUT BUT BUT what happens if both players arrive together. If this is the case the Umpire has no choice but to give the free against the team that put the ball into the air. This is a better option than letting the danger happen.
*** The LHUA will host Training Session # 2 for 2009/10. With the new rules bedded in, the LHUA plans to gather our members together for another valuable Q&A session.
The session will be at Grange Road on December 3 at 8pm. It wil be open to non-members and the Association is accepting questions at hockeyagonyaunt@gmail.com from both members and non-members in advance.
15 comments:
Great response Ray
Could Ray's response be mailed to all Leinster Branch umpires? The point the NOBODY has the right to a dropping ball is very definately not played as such by umpires, who the majority of the time, give automatic ownership to the defenders (which as an attacker is REALLY annoying!!!)
Just a query for 1) The way up:
You're an attacker. You're charging a defender executing an overhead from a free hit/hit out. You are 5m away.
By the time the ball actually leaves the defenders stick and gets airbourne, you are close enough to have it whiz past your head.
At what distance are you close enough for this to be considered a free in for dangerous play?
I've yet to see it given and it's only a matter of time before someone gets injured.
12:58 you're obviously a frustrated striker!! While you're at it will you send it to every player in Leinster so people dont think ownership comes from calling "mine".
Afterall that did go out with the indians!!
'Just a query for 1) The way up:
You're an attacker. You're charging a defender executing an overhead from a free hit/hit out. You are 5m away.
By the time the ball actually leaves the defenders stick and gets airbourne, you are close enough to have it whiz past your head.
At what distance are you close enough for this to be considered a free in for dangerous play?
I've yet to see it given and it's only a matter of time before someone gets injured.'
This has happened to me a good few times. In fact three times in one game last season. The umpires decision in each case was a free out for the defender. When asked why he stated 'you are not allowed to deliberately put yourself in the way of the ball as it is dangerous'. What a joke, as If i intentionally want to get hit in the face with the ball!
3 times he called a free against me and when I challenged it, In got a card for my troubles.
Ray stated that he "would suggest a minimum of five metres away in the line of the ball as it goes up".
If player A is 5m away before a free is taken, then moves towards the ball on player B's first touch. should players A get a free everytime as he is obviously less than 5m away when player B puts the ball into the air?
2.45pm I think you just proved Rays point! If in doubt about who was there first the umpire always has to give it against the team that played the ball initially. its not a joke...its the rules!
3:37 hes talking about charging down the player taking the overhead and gettin the ball in the face on the way up.
The issue seems to be that the rule not set in stone because it is left to the discretion of the umpire as to what a 'safe distance' is to get the ball up. In this case Ray says 5m but that is his opinion, not the official rules.
Also as he says about technique, it will effect the distance the opposition can be as the fast you get it in the air the closer they can be.
5 meters in the direction the ball has traveled in. This does not mean if you are now 4 meters from the thrower he can't throw it anymore.
Height also has to be taken into consideration. Otherwise we'd see every overhead in from a free given as a free hit attack. Thats clearly not going to happen. If you are in the line of the ball, then it should be a free to the attack, otherwise you're not disadvantaged, there's no real danger. Play on.
If you come roaring in, its at your own risk, and if it hits you, its could really be a 50/50 call between the overhead being dangerous, or you trying to control the ball with your body. But Umpires will generally see it as the you trying to control the ball/causing danger by running in, and will give a free hit. You're not really to likely to see a free hit to you for danger unless you its heading straight for you, and you haven't moved into the line of the ball.
Actually, just a thought on that, if the overhead has been thrown, and you run into the line of it, then its really you're own fault, and you can't complain about an injury you get..
Have you even seen Brendan Carr from Glenanne launch a ball into the air. He once hit a BMI aircraft while playaing at ALSAA. His technique is admired across the world by hockey players and also the designers of missile systems.
:)
Mike Green
5.32- how do you challenge for the ball without moving towards the ball? and I don't think many people want to control a hockey ball with their head or testicles
Ray, you are so wise. Do you think that there would ever be a time when umpires might be willing to look at video of their performances and maybe have it critiqued by someone such as yourself? How do umpires improve? They don't have coaches are anyone helping them and they don't get to see their mistakes or their successes. I think it would be great for someone like you to be deployed to evaluate umpires on their performances and suggest areas of improvement. The game of hockey is changing all the time and getting faster and faster. Not only does this make umpiring harder, but it demands a higher standard of umpiring.
Speak for yourself 10.00!!
I agree. Could this rule be explained to all umpires??? In our match (ladies) last weekend a ball was sent by the right back well over the heads of all players and landed about 10 metres in space beyond the head of the nearest player and a free was given back where the overhead had been thrown! Perfectly executed overhead, showing skill and strength with and no danger whatsoever and the free was given against her.... It's very frustrating that the rule is being applied week in week out in different ways by different umpires.
It is dangerous play to run to block an overhead head first !!! Players do this deliberately to seek a free also, and they should not be rewarded for stupidity or else they will be encouraged to run in at every opportunity.
The 5m "rule" is not a rule but a suggestion based on assessment of danger. it also depends on the pace and angle a player arrives in at .
5 metres is in any event too long as this can be compared to the danger of a drag in the circle ?
Best option as a receiving defender is to get into the dropping area first and claim a free if impeded by an attacker. People seem to forget that having played the ball in the air you are creating a potential advantage for the receiving team.
Key points for me are danger up and danger down with the onus on the team delivering the overhead in both instances while ensuring that you are not rewarding a kamikaze runner trying to block with their head .
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