Tuesday, December 9, 2008

Clontarf and Navan to play second half

Clontarf and Navan will complete their division two encounter this evening in Mount Temple at 7.30pm. The decision was made at a hastily arranged meeting of the Leinster Branch fixtures committee who decided late last night that the controversial game last Saturday should not be restarted with a clean slate.

As a result, Clontarf will take the field 4-0 up with 35 minutes to play while Navan are down to ten men following the red card issued to Shane Dooley.


Anonymous said...

Branch cant make up their minds on these type of issues -

It seems to me that because Navan are a small club - they are being picked on.

If one of the big clubs were involved you can be sure that the whole game would have to be played again.

Dave clarke

Anonymous said...

Can't understand why the decision was taken on not doing a restart.

Fair enough clontarf had it in the bag but it just leaves the door open for lots of potential arguments of similar situations in the future.

Would it have happened with a draw scoreline? would it have happened if it was in the first 15mins? wihh if there was no red card? etc.


Anonymous said...

This is the direct opposite of the decision made by IHA in relation to IHL matches. Where is the consistency?

Anonymous said...

i like your music dave clarke. when you playing tripod next?

Anonymous said...

The branch were forced to make this decision otherwise they would have had to let the red card go unpunished because with an abandonment all goals/ cards etc are null and void. Surely nobody could condone that happpening?

I agree that the branch need to adopt one coherant policy but Dave Clarke's argument that this wouldn't have happened to a 'big' club is rubbish, Clontarf aren't exactly among the big hitters in Leinster!

Anonymous said...

Thanks for the support lads, Navan are totally infuriated at having to travel with a skeleton squad, no warm-up(due to time of re-fixture) and the inconsistency of the branch. Fixtures Committee have been phoned by our committee and haven't returned our call. Dave Clarke tickets now on sale in Ticketmaster, Navan :-)
Ru Clarke

Anonymous said...

I've been told by Clontarf players that the match doesnt start until 730 and that the pitch is available from 7, this leaves 30 mins pitch time. Most league matches these days dont get that much pitch time prior to tip off...

Anonymous said...

What a joke, since when has this ever occured before? Talk about opening up a can of worms for the future OR is this the same as what I heard from the womens section the other week ,a 'one of rule'????

Anonymous said...

games off

Anonymous said...

Why are red cards discarded if a match is abondoned surely they should stand regardless of weather the match is abandoned or not as it is a safety issue. This would be an easy rule change to make and eliminate the argument ongoing here.

Anonymous said...

I play for Navan and also live and work in Navan as do most of the Navan Team, I work weekdays until 6pm and usually i dont head to work with my hockey gear with me on the off chance that we might get a call to say there is a match on that night.

I was informed at 10 am this morn that i have to play a refix tonight in Clontarf.After work at 6pm i will now have to go home and get my kit and hopefully a quick bite to eat, then make a 1 hour trip through rush hour traffic which will prob take up to 2 hours depending on the m50.

Under normal circumstances i would say that i might make it to the match by half time, but as this game will be over after 35 mins i dont think there is any point in getting in the car at all.

Pity, because Clontarf v Navan is usually a good game to play in but on this occasion i will be forced to miss it because of a Decision made by the branch which didnt consider that people might have a life outside hockey and they need more notice to get organised for a match.

As many of my team mates will im sure find themselves in a similar position i would be suprised if Navan can fulfill this fixture (Because of the short Notice) and the 2nd half of this game will never be played and clontarf will be awarded the 3 points and a 4 - 0 win.

If this is the case i wouldnt begruge Clontarf the 3 points for a second as they fully deserved them. They are imo the most complete squad in div 2 and if they go on to win the divison they will giv Div 1 a good go next year!

I think is is the sport that has lost out by the branch making this call without giving either team adequate notice!


Anonymous said...

Good to see the branch made a decision. Bad point is the time given to the clubs ( Navan) its not just around the corner
Navan should contact the branch and look for more notice. If the branch don't respond it show a lack of respect for the clubs.

Anonymous said...

where in the rule book does it state that an abandones game is restarted ?
I agree a red card cannot go un punished however to state that fixing a replayed match then "void's" the original game so-to-speak is nonsense.The original match was abandoned , it was not forgotten . This is very weak of the branch and completely incorrect .It is grossly unfair and i sympathise with Navan.
Div 1 player .

Anonymous said...

The match has been conceded by Navan.

Thanks for the "Div 1 player" his insights are no doubt very much appreciated as he must be a far superior player.

Former Irish under 12 badminton champ.

Anonymous said...

The fact that I play Div 1 is completely irrelevant.It simply serves tom point out that I am not part of either Navan or any other partial team to the division.I appreciate your compliments though I have been going througha tough time struggling with injury and confidence but thankfully it now looks as though I can pull through.
Clontarf arguably see themselves as one of the biggwst clubs in Div2 with a feeder school and good setup.It is for this reason I feel that their callings for the game to be "continued" - an unprecedented situation are galling and wrong.
Div1,Div3 player who formerly played in Div2.

Anonymous said...

I think games that get called off should me carried on from where they finish, its the fairest outcome though it is rediculous that this game gets a refix and the matches last week don't.

I fully agree with the Navan players that it's a joke that at no notice they are asked to make about a 2 hour journey. This is obviously impossible and whoever made the decision should have realised that playing the match on a tuesday night at 7 was never going to happen, so why make it in the first place?

Also if the result stands at 4-0 this is slightly unfair on Clontarf in that given the competitiveness of Div 2, goal difference could come into it and with sutts winning 12-0 the other week, whose to say that unfinished half won't cost them at the end of the year

Anonymous said...

Final Result:

Clontarf 4 - 0 Navan

Navan have conceded the match after being unable to field a team at 7.30 on tuesday night in clontarf due to lack of notice.

Fair result in the end as Clontarf prob deserved the win, but what a shambles on the part of the Branch Fixtures Committee.

Lets hope they get their act together and set out a set of directives for the same scenario before next weekends matches!

Some chance!

Anonymous said...

Lots of you guys that comment on this blog seem to be up with the LBHA rules. Can someone confirm if goal difference does count. I was under the impression that when teams were on equal points for leagues or religation that play offs happened? Ex div one now div 2 player but with asperations of div 1 again.....! (follow that)

Anonymous said...

Was involved in a league playoff some years ago where we finished level on points in league div 5 i think it was, Goal diff was not a factor it was purely decided on league points and because we finished in joint first place a playoff was played, which in the end went to a sudden death stroke shootout! Which we lost!

Anonymous said...

Are Trinity going to travel to Naas just to play 8 mins?

Brian Mac said...

I see Tom scored, at last. Pity Clontarf don't play against 10 men every week, as he would prob be on at least 4 goals by now.

DoctorD said...

A wise decision by the fixtures committee - the match was to all intents & purposes over - if Navan REALLY wanted to continue it then they could have but fairness & common sense dictates that Clontarf get the win.

Why not look at the rules ?
(available off Leinster Hockey webpage).

Rule 78 "(c) All red card incidents must be reported to the Honorary Secretary of the Branch, "
(No mention of not reporting if match abandoned)

Rule 79 says that for equality on points for winners & relegation positions there is a test match between the teams. The mid table positions are decided by matches won and then by goal difference.
(So no real issue here)

Rule 80 "The dates on which matches in these competitions shall be played shall be arranged by the Fixtures Committee. ...
notification of all other matches shall be given at least five days before the match is to be played."
(Hmmm - did the umpires get 5 days notice of the 2nd half ?)

Rule 85: In the case of unfinished matches, the Fixtures Committee may either:
A. Refix the match
B. Regard the result as per the score at the time the match was stopped
C. Regard the result as a draw
D. Regard the match as forfeited by either or both teams
E. Resume the match at the point at which play was stopped. "

(No mention of cancelling out cards)

Rule 86: "The report of the results shall include matches not finished stating reasons for the failure to finish the match. "
(No mention of not reporting cards)

Anonymous said...

Clontarf v Navan match should NOT have been refixed

3 days after original fixture.Rule 80 states 5 days notice MUST be given.
It is clear Navan had no change to field a full team.
No official umpires were available at such short notice.
Match should have been refixed from start 0-0.
Weather is outside every bodys control even Navans.
Red card incident is matter for LB Disciplinery Comm.
Match was started not finished.
Both teams start again,common sense.

Anonymous said...

Clontarf members were rather quiet about the refix time. They should know more than anyone that Navan wouldn't be able to get there for a 7:30 start.

Sure Clontarf plain refused to play a southside fixture midweek at8pm in September because they had to come from the northside. Never mind the longer trek from Navan.

Anyway the real culprits here are the Leinster Branch. Appreciate it's a thankless job (or are there junkets?) but you have to have standards and I would question their interpretation of the rules.


Anonymous said...

Dear meh!,can someone confirm if matches have to be refixed within a 15 day period? I heard they did and if this is the case the refix would have had to been mid week? If this is the case then Clontarf could only refix at times when their pitch is available to them and that would mean Tuesday between 7 and 9 and Thursday between 7 and 8.30.

Anonymous said...

Actaully, the only time for a refix in Clontarf is tuesday from 7 - 8.30 as this is the only time we have the full pitch.

Anonymous said...

Yes I can confirm that the only time that clontarf have enough pitch time for a re-fix is Tuesday between 7-8.30.

Therefore a 7 o clock start is required for a full re-fix.

It's never easy for anyone (including home team)to make these fixtures but unfortunately when matches get postponed these are the things that are going to happen.

Ideally weekends are better but clontarf play on Sat and Sun this week so it's not possible.